NetNews Offline 2/NetNews Offline Volume 2.iso/news/comp/lang/c-part1/234

Internet Message Format | 1996-08-05 | 4.7 KB

Path: mail2news.demon.co.uk!genesis.demon.co.uk
From: Lawrence Kirby <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.c
Subject: Re: How do you clear the
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 96 12:54:47 GMT
Organization: none
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <4bqb72$[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4c39qo$[e-mail]> <4c411u$[e-mail]> <4cc2uq$[e-mail]>
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In article <4cc2uq$[e-mail]> [e-mail] "Robert Zook" writes:

>[e-mail] (Peter Seebach) wrote:
>>Yes.  And, had they any, it would suggest that they start with a group
>>like "news.announce.newusers" before rushing headlong into things.
>>When you start a job or a class, do you just assume you know the rules,
>>or do you look in the obvious starting place?
>
>   What makes you think that a new user would know about "news.announce.
>newusers"? I am a relatively new reader myself (about threee months), and I had
>never heard of it before now.

I suggest you ask your ISP why they didn't tell you about it and firmly
suggest they do so for new subscribers in the future.

My ISP carries about 30,000,

That's about double the number of newsgroup that exist in general distribution
on the Internet - they must have an awful lot of local newsgroups! :-)

>and I did not want
>to scan every single group! I quickly scanned for the ones I had heard of and
>ones I thought looked interesting, and then jumped right in. As a new user you
>can buy a book or jump right in. I found it much more fun to jump right in.

You need to show some responsibility in doing this. If you jump into something
without learning the rules of conduct (and Usenet has very well established
rules of conduct even if they seem a little odd sometimes!) you are going
to tread on people's toes.

>   After a few basic posts on one of the news groups I liked, a helpful fellow
>informed me there was a FAQ for that particular group, and where I could find
>the most recent copy. I feel glad that I had found the information without
>having it thrown in my face, liberally sprinkled with insults! Which evidently
>happened to someone here.

That's the risk you take - there's no rule that says you have to be in a
good mood to use Usenet! However if you follow the 'rules' others will
generally respect that and be helpful back. comp.lang.c gets landed with
FAQs and off-topic posts more than most other groups so it may be that
the readers are more sensitive to these than elsewhere. However they (we)
have good reason to be.

>   In case you did not know, word meanings vary, and nobody thinks like anybody
>else, so "the obvious starting place" for you (with newsgroups experience), is
>not likely the obvious starting place a newbie will pick.

Basically you are saying that news.announce.newusers is pointless. The point
however is that the new user should easily be able to find a pointer(!) to it
and that is mostly up to the ISP although books for new users should certainly
point to it as well.

>>And, once they've done that, common sense will suggest that getting the FAQ
>>will be much faster than waiting hours or days for a response, and will also
>>suggest that questions about DOS or Unix, rather than C, should not be
>>asked here.
>
>   Again, common sense as defined by you sir.

No, this is basic Usenet practice. Hopefully it is common sense too.

 Common sense usually means what
>ever you think should happen. There is not some all powerful diety of
>newsgroups somewhere deciding how to define  "newsgroup common sense", then
>stuffing it in newbie's heads.

>>Kindness is a good thing; however, allowing and encouraging incorrect behavior
>>is not a kindness to anyone.
>
>   And I say it three times, incorrect behavior as defined by you sir.

Posting questions that are in the FAQ list is incorrect behaviour as
defined by the Usenet culture, 'netiquette' if you will. It is a group,
not an individual definition.

>What
>pompous arrogance it is for you to decide what correct behavior should be for
>everyone.

You are making false assumtions. If it is generally accepted at an
establishment that you "don't walk on the grass" it is reasonable for
individuals to tell others to "get off the grass". The rule was not made
by the individual but unless individuals implement and even police it (in the
absence of an official police) the rule is worthless.

--
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Lawrence Kirby | [e-mail]
Wilts, England | [e-mail]
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